Phaedra
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Acolyte
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Reged: 02/12/03
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Posts: 188
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Loc: The great northwest (USA)
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Is it bad to "clean" Unofficial Morrowind Patch v1.6.2 by Thepal with TESTool by Ghostwheel? I use TESTool to clean all of the plugins that I use, but most of these are not so complex. If I do clean the Unofficial Patch, TESTool cleans out a lot of dialogue. If I clean it with the Restricted Dialogue Cleaning option on, it stills cleans some of the dialogue. (I made a backup before trying this.) So should I clean it? If yes, do I use Restricted Dialogue Cleaning?
-------------------- My mods:
http://geocities.com/lady_phaedra13/
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I did anyways...
Though it'd be nice to know if I goofed
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Phaedra
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Acolyte
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Reged: 02/12/03
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Posts: 188
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Loc: The great northwest (USA)
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I haven't tested it after cleaning, there are so many things that it changes. I just want to make sure I can trust TESTool to clean it properly or if it is just best to leave it alone. Most of the mods I run are for looks or are really simple, like female armors and robes and few houses and some homemade personal mods. So it's pretty easy to tell what should and should not be cleaned.
-------------------- My mods:
http://geocities.com/lady_phaedra13/
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Phaedra
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Acolyte
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Reged: 02/12/03
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Posts: 188
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Loc: The great northwest (USA)
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Wow, no answers? Does anyone has an opinion or knowledge they wish to share? Thanks in advance for your help.
-------------------- My mods:
http://geocities.com/lady_phaedra13/
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Well, here's what the TESTool documentation says with respect to that flag:
Quote:
Restricted dialog cleaning Normally this toggle should remain disabled. If enabled, then utility will do strict comparison for INFO records (normally NNAM/PNAM fields are ignored), resulting in much more shallow dialog entry cleaning. Personally, I cannot imagine situation when this option should be enabled, except when plugin on purpose reshuffles standard dialog entries.
So, it sounds like it comes down to the question of whether Thepal intentionally reordered otherwise unchanged dialogue entries when he developed the Unofficial Morrowind Patch. I don't know the answer off hand, but it's possible.
-------------------- Morrowind Advanced 1.82
Available for download at TheLys, Euro-Morrowind, and Gamer's Roam
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GhanBuriGhan
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Diviner
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Reged: 10/06/01
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Posts: 2722
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Loc: Behind that tree!
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I am no expert on this one, but I would advise against cleaning it - part of its main purpose is to fix dialogue issues, so cleaning out dialogue seems like a bad idea. Also its an esm, so you should rather clean other mods that conflict with this, then the other way around.
-------------------- --//Forum Scholars guild\\--
MW Scripting for Dummies, Traveling Merchants, Combat Moves:
The Lys
World of Faces Mod
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OK, I thought I remembered seeing something about this in the original UMP release thread.
Thepal mentions there that he intentionally reordered some of the voice entries, so yeah, it sounds like using the restricted dialogue flag may not be a bad idea if you want clean it and be extra careful.
-------------------- Morrowind Advanced 1.82
Available for download at TheLys, Euro-Morrowind, and Gamer's Roam
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Pookhill
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Acolyte
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Reged: 07/22/02
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As reported here TESTool Beta Thread yes TESTool works fine with UMP 1.6.2
-------------------- Yume ni mukai aruki tsuzuketeiku
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Phaedra
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Acolyte
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Reged: 02/12/03
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Posts: 188
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Loc: The great northwest (USA)
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Thanks everybody for the information! It is greatly appreciated.
Edit... Perhaps this information will prove useful to someone: After reading through the links provided in this thread I have decided to clean with restricted dialogue cleaning. It looks like Thepal did reorder some voices/dialogue entries, but a few small things were changed that were not intended to be changed. And Thepal also mentioned possibly doing an update after cleaning with TESTool.
-------------------- My mods:
http://geocities.com/lady_phaedra13/
Edited by Phaedra (05/28/04 06:58 AM)
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Ferocious Monk
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Curate
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Reged: 01/23/03
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Posts: 431
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Loc: Canada, bloodmoon of the real world
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I'm sorry but after all this I still don't know the best way to proceed. How are you supposed to update after a testool clean?
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Knowledge is stronger than any blade...
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Niobe
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Acolyte
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I'm not sure, but I'd advise against cleaning it because, IIRC, Bloodmoon changes Sjoring Hard-Heart's skills, making him remove his armour. UMP reverts him to his original MW persona, but TesTool sees this as being redundant and deletes his entry.
-------------------- "I'm off to the mountains."
"That'll help, will it?" said Rincewind doubtfully.
"No, but the view will be better."
—Terry Pratchett, The Light Fantastic
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Thepal
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Curate
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Reged: 06/21/03
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Posts: 888
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Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
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Quote:
So, it sounds like it comes down to the question of whether Thepal intentionally reordered otherwise unchanged dialogue entries when he developed the Unofficial Morrowind Patch. I don't know the answer off hand, but it's possible.
I'm not really sure how TESTool actually works, so I'm not sure if you can clean it or not. I did reorder a lot of dialogue without changing anything but the order, if that helps. Some things were just the wrong way around.
-------------------- -==Thepal==-
Life to Morrowind Mod - Cancelled
Unofficial Morrowind Patch (Biggest bug fix plugin)
A Hero's Work... - Quest for Glory Mod
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Quote:
I'm not really sure how TESTool actually works, so I'm not sure if you can clean it or not. I did reorder a lot of dialogue without changing anything but the order, if that helps. Some things were just the wrong way around.
Thepal,
Yes, it sounds like using the restricted dialogue cleaning with this mod may not be a bad idea. When doing so, mostly what it cleans is a bunch of ambient light references. There's also the NPC reference someone else mentioned, two door references, a book reference, and a couple of dialogue entries which it still thinks are redundant. Since it sounds like you don't use TESTool here's a copy of the log file in case it proves helpful. I'm assuming the ambient light references weren't intentional?
File: Morrowind Patch v1.6.2.esm ============================== deleted NPC_ sjoring hard-heart deleted DOOR in_de_ship_cabindoor deleted BOOK bk_guide_to_vvardenfell deleted DOOR Ex_DE_ship_cabindoor CELL 15 1, Tel Fyr CELL 12 -7, Molag Mar Region CELL 11 -12, Azura's Coast Region CELL 8 -12, Bal Fell CELL 6 -5, Bal Ur CELL 4 -3, Marandus CELL -3 -2, Balmora CELL -5 -5, Odai Plateau CELL -6 -1, Hlormaren CELL Abandoned Shipwreck, Cabin deleted AMBI CELL Abandoned Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Abandoned Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Andasreth, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Balmora, Guild of Mages deleted AMBI CELL Balmora, Rarayn Radarys' House CELL Dagoth Ur, Facility Cavern deleted WGHT deleted AMBI CELL Derelict Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Derelict Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Deserted Shipwreck, Cabin deleted AMBI CELL Deserted Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Deserted Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Desolate Shipwreck, Cabin deleted AMBI CELL Desolate Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Desolate Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Druscashti, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Druscashti, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Ebonheart, Underground Caves deleted AMBI CELL Imperial Prison Ship deleted AMBI CELL Koal Cave deleted AMBI CELL Lonely Shipwreck, Cabin deleted AMBI CELL Lonely Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Lonely Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Lonesome Shipwreck, Cabin deleted AMBI CELL Lonesome Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Lonesome Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Lost Shipwreck, Cabin deleted AMBI CELL Lost Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Lost Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Neglected Shipwreck, Cabin deleted AMBI CELL Neglected Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Neglected Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Obscure Shipwreck, Cabin deleted AMBI CELL Obscure Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Obscure Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Prelude Shipwreck, Cabin deleted AMBI CELL Prelude Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Prelude Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Remote Shipwreck, Cabin deleted AMBI CELL Remote Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Remote Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Rotheran, Arena deleted AMBI CELL Rotheran, Communal Hut deleted AMBI CELL Seyda Neen, Arrille's Tradehouse deleted AMBI CELL Shunned Shipwreck, Cabin deleted AMBI CELL Shunned Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Shunned Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Unexplored Shipwreck, Cabin deleted AMBI CELL Unexplored Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Unexplored Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Unknown Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Unknown Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Unmarked Shipwreck, Lower Level deleted AMBI CELL Unmarked Shipwreck, Upper Level deleted AMBI CELL Vivec, Arena Fighters Training deleted AMBI CELL -21 24, Felsaad Coast Region CELL Balmora, Rararyn Radarys' House deleted INFO 9819186011414313638 ; Odirniran deleted INFO 1557214595312296170 ; Orders deleted INFO 124011379394104101 ; Hello deleted INFO 732332663288896433 ; Hello deleted INFO 1226413302235052311 ; Hello deleted INFO 320584212101923357 ; Hello ==============================
-------------------- Morrowind Advanced 1.82
Available for download at TheLys, Euro-Morrowind, and Gamer's Roam
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Phaedra
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Acolyte
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Reged: 02/12/03
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Posts: 188
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Loc: The great northwest (USA)
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That's the same log I get with "Restricted Dialogue Cleaning" checked. The AMBI's are pretty normal, I have gotten that in my own stuff when I know I never changed them. Just another case of the editor updating stuff that it shouldn't. Same with the doors and the books listed. How about the NPC and the dialogue?
-------------------- My mods:
http://geocities.com/lady_phaedra13/
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Thepal
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Curate
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Reged: 06/21/03
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Posts: 888
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Loc: Gold Coast, Australia
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The AMBI settings (as well as pretty much all the other ones that TESTool removes) are marked as changed by TESCS for no reason when you change anything in a cell's properties. It wasn't from me accidently clicking on something (I didn't do that at all), but you can only get rid of them by going through the file and deleting them manually (or using TESTool now). If/when I make a new version of the patch I'll use TESTool to clean it. It wasn't out last time.
-------------------- -==Thepal==-
Life to Morrowind Mod - Cancelled
Unofficial Morrowind Patch (Biggest bug fix plugin)
A Hero's Work... - Quest for Glory Mod
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